hot pursuit (7.6.07, update 5.4.08)

Most of the foreign-born insurgents in Iraq enter the country through the Syrian border, U.S. officials estimate. They have warned Syria to stop the flow of these suicide bombers but no avail. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice pressed her Syrian counterpart on this issue recently at an Iraqi security conference in Egypt. But some military experts have called on the U.S. military to raise the ante with Damascus by conducting cross-border raids by Special Forces or targeted air attacks to hunt down jihadis on Syrian soil. They argue that such a strike would be justified under international law and cite a principle known as “hot pursuit.” Turkish officials have invoked this doctrine to justify recent cross-border incursions into northern Iraq to pursue Kurdish rebels. But some international legal scholars dispute whether the doctrine could be applied in this case and refute the notion that either U.S. or Turkish forces could justify cross-border incursions, however limited in scope.

The doctrine generally pertains to the law of the seas and the ability of one state’s navy to pursue a foreign ship that has violated laws and regulations in its territorial waters (twelve nautical miles from shore), even if the ship flees to the high seas. “It means you are literally and temporally in pursuit and following the tail of a fugitive,” says Michael P. Scharf of the Case Western School of Law. “[A state] is allowed to temporarily violate borders to make an apprehension under those circumstances.” The principle is enshrined in Article 111 of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and in Article 23 of the 1958 Convention on the High Seas. The United States has signed but not ratified the former treaty, but signed and ratified the latter.

History is replete with examples of foreign agents or armies crossing another state’s sovereign borders in pursuit of those suspected of committing crimes against another state. One famous example is the pursuit of Pancho Villa by U.S. forces into Mexico in 1916. The manhunt was in response to a cross-border raid of New Mexico by Pancho’s “Villistas,” though the pursuit failed and Villa escaped. Another example was the 1960 seizure of Adolf Eichmann by Israeli agents in Argentina. Eichmann was a former high-ranking Nazi official wanted for war crimes. His capture was widely considered a violation of international law and Argentine sovereignty. Neither of the above cases involved ships on the high seas, nor did either of the states invoke the principle of “hot pursuit” to justify their cross-border activities.

Under international legal norms on state responsibility, and UN Security Council Resolution 1373, passed shortly after the events of 9/11, state sovereignty implies a duty to control one’s territory. That is, a government has an obligation not to allow its territory to be used by non-state actors—or terrorist organizations—to carry out armed attacks against its neighbors. In this case, the U.S. government must prove the Syrian government has failed to prevent these foreign actors from crossing into Iraq and carrying out attacks against U.S. troops. In response, U.S. Special Forces could then “pursue” these foreign jihadis, even if they flee back into Syrian territory. CFR Senior Fellow Max Boot writes in the Weekly Standard that to date the Bush administration has refused to authorize Special Operations forces to hit terrorist safe houses in Syria “even though international law recognizes the right of ‘hot pursuit’ and holds states liable for letting their territory be used to stage attacks on neighbors.”

Legal experts agree that the principle of “hot pursuit,” as it pertains to sovereign territories versus the high seas, remains unsettled. “Let’s say [U.S. forces] were to wait for a bunch of terrorists to cross into Iraq and launch an attack and then chase them over the [Syrian] border, no one will ever complain about that,” says Scharf. “But to invade another country without an actual pursuit on is going to stretch the idea of international law.”

Peter Danchin of the University of Maryland School of Law says if states want to prosecute someone for war crimes or crimes against humanity, usually they need to have them extradited. “This idea of ‘hot pursuit’ is just an attempt to twist the law of the sea doctrine into a self-defense idea. What you’re talking about is the use of force against the territory of another state,” which brings up touchy issues of state sovereignty. “Let’s say [the jihadis] go into Turkey?” he asks. “You’d have a hard time making the case that the 101st Airborne should go in and take them out without Turkish consent.” Further complicating the problem, Danchin argues, is that the United States is not the sovereign in Iraq. “It has fewer rights as an occupier than it does as a sovereign,” he says, referring to the legal use of force. David M. Crane, an expert on international law at Syracuse University, says if these foreign jihadis are apprehended on Syrian soil, they should be tried under Syrian domestic law. Any armed incursion by U.S. forces into Syria, he adds, would “ be a serious breach of international law and technically an act of war.”

The United States could argue, as Israel has done to justify strikes against Hezbollah installations in southern Lebanon, that a limited strike against bases used by foreign jihadis in Syria would be justified under the principle of anticipatory self-defense, which some legal scholars say is upheld by Article 51 of the UN Charter. Other experts point to the 1837 Caroline case, in which British and Canadian rebels crossed into U.S. territory and set the steamer Caroline ablaze, killing two Americans in the process. The Americans argued that the British claim of self-defense—the ship was suspected of ferrying arms to anti-British rebels—failed to “show a necessity of self-defense [that was] instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation,” a line of argument often cited by legal authorities to justify anticipatory self-defense. In the case of Syria, the U.S. government could invoke UN Security Council Resolution 1373, which says that states have the responsibility to prevent the misuse of their territory by non-state actors like al-Qaeda.

In Nicaragua v. United States (1984), the International Court of Justice (ICJ) found the United States, which supplied funds to the Contras in the early 1980s as part of a strategy to unseat the Sandinista government, did not “in itself amount to a use of force,” nor did the Court find the Nicaraguan government liable for its failure to halt weapons that flowed into insurgents’ hands in El Salvador. Later the ICJ found the Serbian authorities did not have effective control over Bosnian Serbs, who stood accused of genocide and other war crimes. Citing such examples, legal experts say the U.S. government would be hard-pressed to prove Syria—unlike, say, the Taliban government in Afghanistan—can be held responsible for attacks carried out by non-state actors operating from its territory. “It’s not a strong case for the U.S.,” says Scharf of Case Western School of Law.

No, particularly as it relates to territory versus the high seas. “If you’re talking about international rules on territorial sovereignty, the arguments on ‘hot pursuit’ are going to be much weaker than in the high seas case because you’re not infringing on the sovereignty of any other state [in the latter case],” says Danchin.

To be sure, states routinely violate other states’ sovereignty to pursue those wanted for various crimes, instead of following international legal norms and extradition processes. For example, in recent years Russian forces regularly sought Chechen rebels believed to be hiding across the border in Georgia, and in the months after the 1994 Rwandan genocide, the Tutsi-led army pursued Hutu militia suspected in the genocide across the border into Congo. In 2002, the United States sent an unmanned Predator drone into Yemen and struck a car, killing five suspected terrorists, including an al-Qaeda leader wanted in the 2000 U.S.S. Cole bombing. In more recent months, the Turkish authorities have flirted with an invasion of Iraqi Kurdistan, which is part of sovereign Iraq, in pursuit of Kurdish guerillas who launch cross-border attacks into Turkey.

"... In international law, the right to "hot pursuit across internationally recognized borders" can and does exist only in agreement with the government responsible for the territory in question. The occasional public statements on this issue by the Pakistani authorities illustrate this situation. The relations among the member states of the Schengen Agreements are seen to evolve in the same direction. On the US side - perhaps with an eye for impending developments involving all three of Turkey's neighboring territories, Iraq, Iran and Syria, the Council on Foreign Relations has recently published a noteworthy introduction. And a further case in point is the - now replaced - Swiss-French Border Convention of 23 February 1882 (.../1882.htm#hotpursuit). This convention explicitly provided for the right to hot pursuit across the border within a 10 km zone. For in its article 9, it specified that officials (forest guards) who, in the area entrusted to their surveillance, have come across a crime or offence against the law, "may pursue the removed objects even on the other side of the border, on the territory of the neighboring state, to where the objects were deposited, and to operate their seizure."
Just as it is not for me to take sides, it is also not for me to decide whether in the current phase of the Turkish-Iraqi border instabilities there is a tacit agreement for such hot pursuit operations within a 75 km border zone. I understand this could be due to the Iraqi Foreign Ministry's manifold public admissions of the Iraqi authorities' persistent difficulties to fulfill the obligations undertaken notably under the "Treaty of Friendship and Neighborly Relations between Iraq and Turkey" of 29 March 1946 (Protocol 6, articles 1 and 11). Only yesterday, the Washington Post reported that an Iraqi Foreign Ministry official admitted some border areas in Northern Iraq to be in effect controlled by the PKK (Joshua Partlow, "Worried Iraqi Officials Urge Calm as Turkish-Kurdish Conflict Escalates": .../iraqsplit.htm#Abbawi). And still another, and admittedly more political question concerns the available options to effectively address - i.e. make a thing of the past - the use of Iraqi territory as save haven and basis for cross-border raids into Turkish territory. Which brings me to the last point, i.e. parall diplomacy, as practiced by a long-term master and colleague of mine, the late Swiss Secretary of State Edouard Brunner. ..."

ISTANBUL, Oct. 13 -- U.S. officials began an intense lobbying effort Saturday to defuse Turkish threats to launch a cross-border military attack against Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq and to limit access to critical air and land routes that have become a lifeline for U.S. troops in Iraq.

"The Turkish government and public are seriously weighing all of their options," Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Fried said after meetings with Turkish officials in Ankara, the capital. "We need to focus with Turkey on our long-term mutual interests."

But even as the U.S. official appealed for restraint, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, speaking at a political rally in Istanbul on Saturday, urged the parliament to vote unanimously next week to "declare a mobilization" against Kurdish rebels and their "terrorist organization," the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

Fears of a new frontier of instability in the troubled Middle East sent oil prices soaring Friday to a record high of $84 a barrel. U.S. military officials predicted disastrous consequences if Turkey carries out a threat to strike northern Iraq, and they warned of serious repercussions for the safety of American troops if Turkey reduces supply lines in response to a congressional vote last week on the killing of Armenians nine decades ago.

The confluence of two seemingly unrelated events could not have come at a worse time. Thirteen soldiers killed last weekend in Turkey in the most deadly attack by Kurdish separatists in more than a decade had barely been buried when the House Foreign Affairs Committee in Washington approved a resolution labeling as genocide the mass killings of Armenians during the final decades of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey does not deny the deaths but argues that they occurred as part of a war in which Turks were also killed.

"This is not only about a resolution," said Egemen Bagis, a member of the Turkish parliament and a foreign policy adviser to Erdogan. "We're fed up with the PKK -- it is a clear and present danger for us. This insult over the genocide claims is the last straw."

Domestic politics in both countries -- the Armenian lobby that pushed for the genocide resolution in the U.S. Congress and growing pressure on the Turkish president to stop Kurdish rebel attacks -- collided to create an international crisis.

"It's a difficult time for the relationship," U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters Saturday during her trip to Russia, noting that Fried and another senior State Department official had traveled to Turkey to reassure the Turks "that we really value this relationship."

A recent poll conducted by the German Marshall Fund of the United States, a transatlantic public policy organization, found that Turkish attitudes toward the United States were becoming increasingly hostile. Using its 100-degree thermometer scale, the fund found that Turkish "warmth" toward the United States had plunged from 28 degrees in 2004 to 11 degrees in 2007.

"Each time we have a soldier killed, many people look at Washington and they believe that Americans are responsible for this because they prevent us from stopping the infiltration into Turkey," said Onur Oymen, deputy chairman of the opposition Republican People's Party.

Erdogan is feeling increased heat from his military, which is suspicious of his Islamic roots and acquiescence to Washington in taking no action against Kurdish rebels in Iraq. His public is angry over the genocide vote, frustrated with a European Union that is unwilling to admit Turkey to its club, and outraged that the United States has turned its back on what Turks consider their own fight against terrorism, a 23-year-long war with the Kurdish separatists.

"The Turkish newspapers are printing full front-page pictures of dead soldiers with Turkish flags," said Bulent Aliriza, director of the Turkey project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The accusation is that this guy is soft on the Kurdish issue and does only what the U.S. wants him to do."

That perception prompted Erdogan to issue a warning to Washington this week: "If you're against [the rebels], make your attitude clear and do whatever is necessary. If you cannot do it, then let us do it."

A major operation by Turkey "would start a war with the Iraqi Kurds," said Henri Barkey, a former State Department official who now heads the International Relations Department at Lehigh University. "Northern Iraq is the only place that the U.S. has managed to achieve a modicum of stability and [it] is afraid that a major operation would unleash violence in the north.

"I'm sure the U.S. would say okay to a limited, one-time operation," Barkey said. "But everyone knows a one-time operation is not going to solve the problem. The Turks want a carte blanche to do whatever they want to do. That's the problem."

Marc Grossman, a former U.S. ambassador to Turkey and undersecretary of state for political affairs during President Bush's first term, said there were three reasons the United States has been reluctant to take action in northern Iraq against the PKK: U.S. troops are already fully engaged, and the north is generally stable. Plus, he said, "there's a lot of sympathy in some parts of our government for the Kurds and some residual disappointment for the Turkish government decision on March 1, 2003," to forbid the United States to launch an assault in Iraq through Turkey.

Human rights groups have long criticized Turkey for the brutal treatment of its Kurdish minority and its efforts to suppress the Kurdish culture and language within Turkish borders.

The PKK problem had become so frustrating to both Turkey and the United States that the retired U.S. and Turkish generals appointed in 2006 to help resolve some of the tensions have left their jobs: The Turk was relieved of his position just before he planned to resign, and the American offered his resignation letter weeks ago, though it was accepted by the Bush administration only this week, according to U.S. and Turkish officials.

Bagis, the soft-spoken Turkish lawmaker and Erdogan adviser, has what for the moment might be one of the world's least enviable positions -- chairman of the Turkey-USA Interparliamentary Friendship Caucus, a group of Turkish lawmakers who meet regularly with their counterparts in the U.S. Congress.

He returned here from Washington on Friday after a failed push to head off the genocide resolution. On Saturday, in the midst of the Muslim festival of Eid al-Fitr, marking the end of the Ramadan fasting period, Bagis's young children were pleading with him to get off the telephone and play.

But Bagis could not shake the frustration of the past several months. He and other Turkish officials, including Erdogan, have been warning the Americans for months that the situation on the Turkish-Iraqi border had deteriorated.

The PKK leadership operates freely in northern Iraq, they argued. The rebels have established camps and a safe haven, and the attacks in Turkey are becoming increasingly bold. Neither the United States nor the Iraqi government had taken any action to arrest PKK leaders or curb their activities.

Even though the U.S. government was the first foreign country to declare the PKK a terrorist organization, it appeared to many Turkish officials that the United States was setting a double standard in not allowing them to launch an attack against the rebels to protect their soldiers and citizens.

After the past two weeks' spate of PKK attacks, which killed a total of 30 soldiers, police officers and civilians, Turkish authorities arrested suspected rebels who were carrying U.S. military-issue 9mm Glock semiautomatic pistols. U.S. officials said at the time that the weapons had been stolen.

Bagis's response: "The good news, we have found your stolen weapons; the bad news, they're killing us."

He added, "And while all this is going on, all of a sudden this resolution comes along with this ally you consider as your most important strategic partner in the world, your strong NATO ally -- insulting you with something that is claimed to have happened back in 1915. "It's not like we're saying, 'Oh, it never happened,' " Bagis said. "We're saying, 'Let the historians judge it, not the politicians.' "

Comments

solami wrote:
Though I know of no chancellery in the world where "not invented here" is not a dominant theme, and no time in history where the powers that be didn't act as if they had a monopoly for good ideas, even such delicate and explosive situations as the current Turkish-US tensions over the Turkey-Iraq cross-border raids are seen to avail themselves for defusion by way of properly designed and competently handled political catalysts. In this sense, old treaties which may have fallen off the radar screen of the current generation of policy makers and diplomats can serve as sources of inspiration at least, as detailed in a recent publication in EKOPOLITIK ("Rebirth of the Mosul Vilayet?": www.solami.com/rebirth.htm ¦ .../hotpursuit.htm ¦ .../iraqsplit.htm).
10/14/2007 8:32:43 PM Recommended (1)

wa_idaho_lonewolf wrote:
the turkish question is one of the u.s.'s making and i, for one would question as to whether or not the "fix" is in where the caspian sea question is concerned. is turky, in reality preparing to assist the u.s. in a flanking manouever to gain control of the energy reserves in that region? and has nancy pelosi once again stepped into the quicksand? what has the now dusted history of ww1 to offer us in 21st century? good luck, nancy!!
10/14/2007 4:01:18 PM

zendrell wrote:
How about we support our real allies, the Turks. It is about time we got off our high hrose and away from the oil tap. If we are willing to pass a resolution against the Turks then how about we slap on the Protestants for all the Irish who died over here as indentured servants? What's the matter America, those folks were of not the correct persuasion? Hypocrits.
10/14/2007 3:21:08 PM

edfeeney wrote:
HEY EVERYONE, IN THE WORDS OF A REMARKABLE HUMAN BEING, "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG".
10/14/2007 3:12:04 PM

edfeeney wrote:
Well theres some good news and some bas news here. The good news is maybe with some hard-driving diplomacy we could work this out with Turkey. The bad news is its Condi Rice and a gutted out State Dept where most senior diplomats have left because of this Admin. So with no competent diplomats old Condi will get the call. Yes thats the Condi who does not have 1 foreign affairs success to her credit. She'll bring over a slew of youngsters whos only qualifications are is that they graduated from some evangelical college. Oh boy were screwed.
10/14/2007 3:03:27 PM

alexarmac wrote:
The house committe resolution condmening the turks for genocide approximatley 100 years after it happened surely doesn't help this situation. None of the Turks today were even living when this happened. This is truth positive that old people such as Tom Lantos should be put out to pasture. He and other such as Jimmy Carter, donald rumsfield and Alan Greenspan have to much hubris and ego to step down gracefully. Rather they try to stay on the stage and act the fool. the media needs to take off the gloves with these old people and humiliate them enough to go to the sidelines if they won't do it themselves.
10/14/2007 3:01:19 PM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Yes panther, you're the window cleaner and I'm the comedian. Used to work for John Stewart.
10/14/2007 2:44:05 PM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
I wonder what Magic will construct today. We need people who can build bridges.
10/14/2007 2:40:56 PM

hankomatic1 wrote:
re:1941 When Iraqi jews got butchered... Source:JTA NEWS Story by Edwin Black
10/14/2007 2:19:55 PM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
smokeberry, This BushCo govt. is that arrogant and ignorant that she has the audacity to think for anybody on the planet. Orwell's think police!
10/14/2007 2:09:31 PM

MagicPanther wrote:
Well back to work, love construction clean windows paint, stucco and everything elkse, this is what the contractors get when they hire low wage illegals, they get to pay for high wage Citizens to clean up after them weeeeeeeeee. Jvan have to tell you bro, your without doubt in the top ten percent of wiggers that post here and the top 5 percent of the laughter I get from reading the posts. I just read what 111 posted to funny he/she hit it right on the money.
10/14/2007 2:07:37 PM

Link1 wrote:
If the Turks were smart,they'd gather up the 'Kurds' and export them to Viet-Nam where they would then be referred to as the Kurds in Hue'aka:curds-n-whey?'I' thought it was funny.He,he,he,he!!!"Link 1"
10/14/2007 2:00:42 PM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
That makes sense, Blackwater sold the missing weapons to the PPK. That problem is solved. I wonder where the 363 tons of $100 bank notes are. Still in the USA?
10/14/2007 1:56:26 PM Recommend (1)

MagicPanther wrote:
Rat bro, try using word to write your posts so you can read the whole thing and then copy and past, it works for me, especially for long posts. Jvan no one really cares about your rants bro, or that Holland is going to sink in the sea again per Al Gore. If I were to work for an intelligence group it would be the Mossad thank you very much, they don't screw around and I like their style, and I believe 10000% in their right to have their homeland back, JUDEA. But hell what can anyone tell an antisemitic fool anyway, especially one that thinks I am EVERY tag in WaPo that disagree's with him, to funny bro.
10/14/2007 1:53:07 PM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
What's this world coming to? Turkey is threatening the Congress. Would THEY invade America? Turkish Delight is yummy,yummy!
10/14/2007 1:41:57 PM Recommend (1)

MagicPanther wrote:
Well chit good morning me. you have e-mail Rat bro. Jvan what have you been smoking today and how did I annoy you this time to bring out your paranoia? Helix give you a wedgie again? whats with the etc, etc? I think you need to put the hash pipe down. Just one tag bro, this one.
10/14/2007 1:40:53 PM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
33% of Holland's total area was claimed from the sea, helix.
10/14/2007 1:35:45 PM Recommend (1)

hankomatic1 wrote:
re: 111 222 111 Hear Reason, Or She'll Make You Feel Her...
10/14/2007 1:28:07 PM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
The BIG DOG on the block is very tired. He needs to eat health food and ignore McDonalds!
10/14/2007 1:25:32 PM Recommend (1)

rat-the wrote:
Oops---Meant to write: what was Once Upon a Time "Kurdistan"-As in... I really need to proof read!
10/14/2007 1:19:37 PM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
When will you decide what the contents of a poster should be? Don't you believe in the constitution? Are you a freedom hater? Consult Rupert Murdoch first??
10/14/2007 1:16:11 PM Recommend (2)

rat-the wrote:
I can only try to say this as plainly as I can. The historical boundaries of what was ONCE Upon a Time_As In "Ottoman Empire","Savoy", "Alexandria" and so many other HISTORICAL PLACES, is OIL RICH! The Kurds have been aware of this. So have the Turks, the Iranians, and the Iraqi's. The Kurds can dream of somehow rising up and stealing the oil rich lands-But it is a FANTASY! Then, EVEN if they DID, Their HOSTILE Neighbors they carved out their hole from, would have them LANDLOCKED!- And NO PANTHER, they would NOT let them pump anything over their lands! I used to think Iraq's were the Dumbest on the Planet, I am now beginning top think it is because of inter-Breeding with Kurds, which they seem to have decided to STOP doing!
10/14/2007 1:13:26 PM Recommend (1)

Theodore41 wrote:
I will write again and again, that if the holocaust recognition is good and fair,so as we remember what attrocities have been done by nazis, the same should be done for all other similar murders, without exceptions.Period. I see, that manu US citizens, see one way only. Their "national interest".And from the other hand, they want from us all, to believe that they are the good guys, who can trust. Ha, ha,ha.
10/14/2007 1:09:55 PM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
helix5,magic panther, etc,et, etc. Thanks for the the long list of my posts you put on this site. Are you working for the MOSSAD or the KGB?? I told you before that I hate all people with in one hand a gun and in the other the bible. Because they're schzophrenic and paranoid. You're one of them. I love ALL peace loving Americans and I hate human beings walking on bear's claws!!
10/14/2007 1:09:34 PM Recommend (2)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
A Turkish general has warned the American congress not to pass a bill condemning the alleged mass killings of Armenians or else! That's pretty tough language almost being an ultimatum. Will the Congress take notice of this Turkish warning??
10/14/2007 1:01:11 PM

111_222_111 wrote:
I can't be sure but I think jvandeswaluw1 has a bad inferiority complex and some serious jealousy problems, 20 Turks get killed it's an OMG they have the right to take over and do another genocide like they did on the Armenians. America gets attacked more then 38 times around the world pre 9/11 having well over 5,000 Citizens killed and we're in the wrong. One has only to go to jvandeswaluw1 public profile to see the reason WHY he hates the U.S. so much, he misses his Nazi buddies, many of the Dutch were great supporters of the Nazi's and turned in thousands of Jews for the bakery. Europeans, I say PIZZ on Europeans they have brought us into TWO major world wars bailing them out of their own problems, and then were happy for American money and supplies, food to rebuild after World War 2. Begged us to help stave off the USSR, but when we are attacked they clap with glee and go HURRAH. jvandeswaluw1 we're still the BIG DOG on the block and if the need arises no problem using Nukes, as the world knows as we've used them before, and if these jihad camel jockies don't keep their war in your area of the world, you'll see a lot of geiger counters in Europe going clickity clack clack as the fallout from whats left of the Middle East wafts over your pathetic country. Post after post you show nothing but your hatred which is alright, and your jealousy which is also alright and very funny
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Americans often forget that in essence they're Europeans. 11:35:23 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Be honest, who wants to invade the USA? A nation that used just about all of her natural resources, a nation with biggest national debt on the planet and a nation having a govt. who deny her young children a health scheme? That's really CRUEL. If the devil would visit Irak and saw with his own eyes what happened there, he would start crying spontaneously. 11:04:21 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: First restrain yourself in order to earn some overseas respect! 10:43:03 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: American troops belong in America. All their fighting equipment can't pass their territorial boundaries. Time and time again America showed that their fighting forces can't RESTRAIN themselves. 10:37:36 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Are Americans the new Arian race? The boys from Brazil? 10:02:09 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Are Americans the new Arian race? The boys from Brazil? 9:36:17 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: The only advantage for the people in Northern Irak is that Turkey doesn't use DU-ammo. 9:29:43 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: essay, Don't tell a Japanese that he's part of our Western World! He has his own civilization! Right? 9:22:01 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: America's foreign cowboy politics sets a bad example for thr rest of the world. The USA is not the roll model we need. 9:06:54 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: America thinks that she can buy allies and friends by giving them billions of $$. I wonder if these 'friends' take the trouble of saying thank you USA. I wouldn't, I would think: This guy is an idiot, at home families live on food coupons!! 8:35:48 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Do we need America's permission to invade? BushCo is even invading the privacies of his OWN people!! 8:22:21 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: America's security is not threatened, American freedoms are threaned by BushCo! 8:17:30
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Do you realize how many by-products there are after the oil is refined?? Hundreds and hundreds of by-products, from lipstick, plastics,medicines,etc. Lubricating oils, without lube oil nothing would move!! The Western World is desperate for OIL. 8:10:28 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: Rice is another example of this BushCo govt. who's ignorant and arrogant. Turkey should try restraint she says!! At the same her Blackwater gang goes on slaughtering innocent women and children! Rice, shut up and do what you do best--nothing. 7:01:24 AM
    jvandeswaluw1 wrote: America calls anybody an ally when it's in her own interests! If America doesn't need you, you can drop dead. 6:47:04 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Turkey wants to secure the oil fields of Northern Northern Irak, like America is doing in other areas of Irak. But I bet that the Turks won't slaughter 1 million+ Iraki civilians to get the oil.
10/14/2007 12:58:38 PM Recommend (6)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
ahmet made a good point by telling us that it's possible that Turkish troops could get engaged with the American military in Northern Irak. BushCo is losing more allies than she can afford!! Well done George!
10/14/2007 12:48:12 PM Recommend (2)

diamondjoe wrote:
It would appear one side of our government is intent on seeing failure in Iraq to ensure their predictions of failure come true. What better way than to condemn a nation for something the current leadership had absolutely no control over. So much for gaining allies throughout the world. While we are at it let's do as one writer suggested and condemn ourselves for the genocide of the Native American population. Of course that brings another problem. Can someone please tell me how many generations a family needs to be in this country before we are considered Native Americans. Our government officials not only causes divisions across the globe but insist on doing so here at home. When are any of them going to get the idea that they work for us and make changes that truly effectively protect our way of life. For instance, English as the official language, protecting our borders and deporting those here without authorization, ensuring we do not tax our companies out of the export business, keeping taxes low and wages high enough for American workers to want those jobs they currently do not seem to want. Instead of doing the work for Americans congress insists on bashing other countries who happen to be allies. How, pray tell, is supposed to help America or the American image across the world.
10/14/2007 12:38:52 PM Recommend (2)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
hankomatic, You're right, often history is planned. The main motivation to wage war is GREED.
10/14/2007 12:35:35 PM Recommend (2)

smokberry2002@yahoo.com wrote:
One thing that baffles me is the the US has passed a resolution stating Turks commited genocide against the Armenians. Thats all fine but has the US ever passes a resolution stating that they exterminiated the Native Americans? How about it, why not pass a double resolution, or even better a triple resolution stating America has commited genocide against the native of America, enslaved blacks for 100s of years and then we can also mention the Armenians.
10/14/2007 12:32:32 PM Recommend (2)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
james walker, Here we go again, what an arrogant statement: Americans are unique at chess!! Russians are nique at chess is what you mean.
10/14/2007 12:29:41 PM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Did you watch CNN's never told stories about Irak yesterday? Very sad.
10/14/2007 12:19:24 PM Recommend (2)

schumann-bonn wrote:
it boggles my mind that the US cannot prevail upon the Iraqi Kurds to stop the PKK. The Iraqi Kurds must know that Turkey is serious about an invasion if the PKK is not stopped and they must know that a Turkish invasion cannot be in their best interest. Forget the Iraqi government. It is powerless in the Kurdish regions of Iraq. But the Iraqi Kurds can stop their brethren, if they only want to do so. And they depend on American help. That ought to give the US soem leverage!
10/14/2007 12:11:34 PM Recommend (1)

aminmohseni wrote:
if the US is entitled to go more than 5000 miles overseas to fight terrorism and bring instability to the whole Middle East Region, why shouldn't the Turks, for the sake of their national security, be allowed or even be encouraged to attack the terrorist group that camps across their borders and kills Turk soldiers inside turkish territory using American weapons. Thanks to US, the Jungle rule is back and I sometimes wonder how the American government looks at US as the forerunner of civilization, while they desire the exclusive use of violence for themselves.
10/14/2007 12:07:12 PM Recommend (7)

hankomatic1 wrote:
...The General Public Is Taught That History Happens By Accident. However The Upper Echelons Know That History Is Planned...
10/14/2007 12:05:36 PM Recommend (3)

1943MB wrote:
Abolish the Democratic and Republican parties. Abolish the President. Country is run by the House and the Congress. Members are voted into office by free elections based on knowledge and ability. House and Congress vote a leader of each which tips the scales during tie votes. End of story.
10/14/2007 12:05:35 PM Recommend (3)

elprimojpvh wrote:
Perhaps the U.S. Congress needs to pass some resolutions acknowledging the genocide that was basic to our country's expansion before they pass judgement on other countries.
10/14/2007 12:03:19 PM Recommend (2)

chert wrote:
    RScott251 wrote: "I love it..say as much you want to about Bush's Mid-East policies, this takes the cake. The Democratic majority wants to PO a NATO ally over something that happened 90 yrs ago. Way to go Dems...you truly showed your international expertise. Which is...nothing."
    It's a bit like labelling traditional allies "Old Europe", threatening to "punish the French" and "Freedom Fries", isn't it? Yeah, the current resolution is a dumb move by Congress, but, let's face it, nothing remotely compared to the bone-headed foreign policy blunders perpetrated by the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress over the past six years. Admit it.
10/14/2007 11:40:33 AM    Recommend (3)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Americans often forget that in essence they're Europeans.
10/14/2007 11:35:23 AM Recommend (1)

chert wrote:
Hey, DwightCollinsDuarte and NYChap44, in keeping with the propensity of the right to try to blame everything that's happening in Iraq on the Democrats, why don't we just pretend that it was the Dems who provided the PKK with the U.S. made Glocks being used to kill our allies the Turks? Better yet, let's blame it on Bill Clinton! After all, that's your next gambit, isn't it? How's Ann Coulter, by the way? Excellent representative of your side. You should be proud.
10/14/2007 11:34:17 AM Recommend (2)

gatriotact wrote:
if democrats actually do pass the resolution that would be one of the few savvy things they have done with respect to iraq. it will be a lot harder to fight the special interest war with no access to northern iraq.
10/14/2007 11:19:52 AM Recommend (3)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
As Ronald Reagen's envoy, Rumsfeld supplied Sadam with chemical and biological weapons. These weapons were used during the Irak-Iran war and against the Kurds!
10/14/2007 11:17:08 AM Recommend (2)

nychap44 wrote:
This problem with Turkey was clearly orchestrated by the Democrats to cause more problems for President Bush and our country. There is no reason on earth why a congressional resolution is required at this particular time, 95 years after the incident, unless it was to make the war in Iraq more difficult to prosecute for our country. It is disgraceful. Turkey is our ally. Or should I say Turkey was our ally. Why should they practice restraint after this insult? The Democrats in Congress have only proved what I have known all along, they are not only stupid, but they a bad people who do not care about our country.
10/14/2007 11:07:31 AM

ahmetgiritli wrote:
    National Interests    Traditionally Turkey’s foreign policy towards her allies has been governed by dialogue. Unfortunately U.S.A not only has failed to act like an ally but has clearly shown how unrelieable strategic partner they are. In view of the Armenian and the PKK issues Turkey now has been pushed to point where they have to reconsider their alliance with U.S.A. On one hand you have the U.S.A House of Representatives resuming the role of judge, jury and the executioner voting for the Armenian Genocide based on the one sided misleading propaganda of the Armenian lobby totally ignoring the fact that at a time when mainland Ottoman Empire was invaded by occupation forces Ottoman Armenians committed treason and rebelled against the Ottoman Empire and butchered around 1.000.000 Ottoman Turks and Kurds. It was unfortunate that as a natural consequence of the rebellion and the murders comitted by the Armenians , relatives of the butchered of Otoman Turks and Kurds attacked masses of Ottoman Armenians seeking for revenge. Both sides suffered great tragedy intensely and cannot move forward until a direct dialogue on the matter is established. Unlike the Armenian side the Ottoman side buried their suffering in to the depth of their hearts. Turkish Republic over the years has been preparing their version of the events .This is why the matter is much more complicated then the Armenian Diaspora is claiming it to be.
    U.S.A could have taken a more responsable position in the matter and recommended that this subject should be taken to an International Court where each party can have their voice heard. One really wonders what type an apology Armenian Diaspora are going to come up with after having mislead the world for 92 consecutive years . History will note that U.S.A role in the matter has been directly influenced by the arithmetics of local politics.The presence of the Armenian Religious Head at the U.S.A House of Representatives Foreign Relations Comittee meeting for the Armenian Genocide voting is also extremely meaningful and also explains a lot about the fairness and objectivity of the house and circumstances surrounding the shameful act.
    PKK terror has caused Turkey over 30.000 lives in the past two decades.The arms obtained after the distmantling of Saddams armed forces were handed over to the Iraqi kurds by U.S.A and these arms were supplied to the to the PKK terrorists by the Iraqi Kurds. PKK has been attacking Turkish villages killing innocent civilians regardless of their age and sex. Turkey has patiently waited for U.S.A to take responsability of controlling Northern Iraq where U.S.A has proven to be inadequate and unable in fullfilling their responsability . Turkey on numerous occasions has informed U.S.A of their dissatisfaction on the matter but was told that any action against Northern Iraq would constitute an act against U.S.A. It is incredible to observe that there exists such a double standard between the allies of U.S.A. , while Israel can protect their national interests in the region with the full backing of U.S.A , Turkey is being imposed limitations on matters which concerns their national security.
    It is interesting to see that majority of theTurkish public opinion ( 85%) are in favour with entering Iraq even it means that Turkey will severe ties with U.S.A and have to engage with U.S.A armed forces.It is alarming to see how the Pro-American cross section of the population are disappearing and now have joined the Anti-American entity.
    We hope that U.S.A will re-examine their current on going policies with Turkey and redefine their strategies taking in to account the national interests of the Turkish Republic before it is too late. For an update on the Genocide subject visit; www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr
10/14/2007 11:07:24 AM    Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Be honest, who wants to invade the USA? A nation that used just about all of her natural resources, a nation with biggest national debt on the planet and a nation having a govt. who deny her young children a health scheme? That's really CRUEL. If the devil would visit Irak and saw with his own eyes what happened there, he would start crying spontaneously.
10/14/2007 11:04:21 AM Recommend (1)

alzach wrote:
The US preaching restraint. It sounds like a hooker extolling the virtues of chastity.
10/14/2007 10:51:17 AM Recommend (8)

jjpQf7kb wrote:
The conflict between the Kurds and Turkey is another nail in the coffin of the Iraqi war. To me I would not give one iota of concern what happens between those two countries. The problem is our illegal involvement in the invasion of Iraq. Now every problem in that area is "our" problem. I still can not believe how George W. Bush continues to put our country and our troops in harms way. The longer we stay in occupying Iraq, the more destabiized the Middle East will become. I blame both the Republicans and also the Democrats since they are both sleeping together. They keep voting up to $120 billion more in congressional funds for the continuation of this horrible war. What good did it do to put the Democrats in the majority? I do not see any difference. What happens if Turkey invades without permission? If the Armenians want the resolution then how come more of them volunteer to fight in Iraq? That resolution is endangering our troops. Another example is the Blackwater scandal. They are also endangering our troops. 5 years of this hell must stop and we got to withdraw as soon as possible. "The harm is done". Cut our losses and deal with our domestic problems. Why is the United States sticking their noses were it does not belong?
10/14/2007 10:47:54 AM

wickiser wrote:
The United States should encourage Turkey in their actions in Northern Iraq. Turkey is after all only applying the Bush doctrine. You have the right to pre-emptively attack any nation or organization that you conceive as an immediate threat and the right & obligation to attack terrorists anywhere. Its our policy we should support it.
10/14/2007 10:43:22 AM Recommend (3)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
First restrain yourself in order to earn some overseas respect!
10/14/2007 10:43:03 AM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
American troops belong in America. All their fighting equipment can't pass their territorial boundaries. Time and time again America showed that their fighting forces can't RESTRAIN themselves.
10/14/2007 10:37:36 AM Recommend (1)

hlotz wrote:
President Bush maintains that it is better to kill the terrorists in Iraq than to have to kill them in the United States. Now Turkey says: It's better to kill the terrorists in Iraq than to have to kill them in Turkey. Interesting, Bush is teaching the world something.
10/14/2007 10:36:50 AM Recommend (1)

DwightCollinsDuarte wrote:
do the dems know how many nuclear weopans nato has in turkey. do they know how many nuclear weopans the turks have. do the dems care about the kurds or do dems only care about themselves and losing this war.
10/14/2007 10:08:23 AM

DwightCollinsDuarte wrote:
after the dems insulted the turks, why should they listen or even care what we want.
10/14/2007 10:03:50 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Are Americans the new Arian race? The boys from Brazil?
10/14/2007 10:02:09 AM Recommend (1)

QuincyPynke wrote:
The Democrat vote on the Armenian genocide was primarily to catch the Armenian vote in the upcoming elections - there are more Armenians living in the US than there are in Armenia. That it also created difficulties for Bush in the ME was a bonus. I don't believe that the Democrats thought (or cared) any more about the consequences of their actions than this. Incidentally, it was widely predicted before the invasion of Iraq that Turkey, Syria and Iran would be drawn into a wider conflict as a result.
10/14/2007 9:58:18 AM

monizs wrote:
News, Turkey should show restrain, whle we prepare for war wih Iran. Iranians have been infiltrating the border and tens of them (some say hundrds) have crossed border and hurting our soldiers. We have US senate authorization to pursue these invaders across the border, but Turkey should show restrain.
10/14/2007 9:43:43 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Are Americans the new Arian race? The boys from Brazil?
10/14/2007 9:36:17 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
The only advantage for the people in Northern Irak is that Turkey doesn't use DU-ammo.
10/14/2007 9:29:43 AM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
essay, Don't tell a Japanese that he's part of our Western World! He has his own civilization! Right?
10/14/2007 9:22:01 AM Recommend (1)

wardropper wrote:
FirstBlood, It's "let go of the REINS", as in controlling horses. Horses do not have REIGNS, and they do not reign either. Queen Elizabeth reigns in England, as in ruling a country. She only reins in, or gives rein, when she is out horse-riding. This mistake is getting too common in the USA. The horse doesn't care either way, however.
10/14/2007 9:14:39 AM

FirstBlood wrote:
The US should join Turkey in it's denial of genocides! Really, the United States is flushing out the middle class - making sure the lower class kids have no health care- that's an indirect way of saying - die kiddo - we don't care. The US is also encouraging Iraqi's to FLEE their cities and head to the desert - watch it via satellite if you care- but these Iraqi refugees no longer have anywhere else to go, no neighboring countries will take them. YET ? The US is convinced they need to stay the course and hunt out those native iraqi's fighting back against the US occupation calling them 'insurgents' or 'terrorists'. I don't buy it. This is the christian right gone MAD. This is like the Young Turks. US and Turkey should be patting each other on the back, it's no WONDER Bush admin officially does NOT support that a genocide occurred. Makes ya wonder eh? I can see the president of Turkey calling up Bush 'I thought you said you had this thing under control you little monkey' I HIGHLY suggest people research the BTC pipeline and Halliburtons beginnings to build a new fatter pipe through Iran and Iraq. This is GREED folks, flat out insolence, and greed, and we are all paying for it. SCREW Turkey if they deny a genocide. SCREW the US for carrying OUT their OWN genocide. use of 'fly paper' in military operations is sketchy folks, you watch the people that feed Fox News - the religious right - the Ann Coulters, they're happy any non-christians are dying. This is the anti-thesis of Armenian genocide, that's the irony, the US is promoting a cleansing of islamicists. I don't think they're going to let go of the reigns either.
10/14/2007 9:09:03 AM Recommend (4)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
America's foreign cowboy politics sets a bad example for thr rest of the world. The USA is not the roll model we need.
10/14/2007 9:06:54 AM Recommend (1)

wardropper wrote:
"Urges restraint"? Looks like the Shrubbery at the White House is learning Diplomacy Pre-Course Basics at last. As usual, he is learning far too late, but it does make a welcome change from "You do what we say, or we'll apply sanctions or bomb your civilians and holy places until you comply, and you will be designated "A Terrorist Organization" and the Geneva Convention will no longer apply when we send Blackwater to murder your wives and children" "Thank you for your cooperation"
10/14/2007 9:06:45 AM Recommend (4)

rscott251 wrote:
RobertTaylor1: A complete idiot. Saddam was never an ally of the United States. We were shooting down Migs and blowing up "t" tanks. Im so sick of you idiots that say we had been arming Saddam. Iraq was a client state of the Soviet Union. Why do you think there is a big issue of clamping down on F-14 parts so Iran cant build an airforce? HAs not this same paper been writing articles of how Iran is scrounging up parts ? Because we were supplying THEM! Geeso peets, get your history straight. I can tolerate differing opinions, but outright stupidity with off the knee remarks is untolerable.
10/14/2007 8:56:06 AM Recommend (1)

rscott251 wrote:
I love it..say as much you want to about Bush's Mid-East policies, this takes the cake. The Democratic majority wants to PO a NATO ally over something that happened 90 yrs ago. Way to go Dems...you truly showed your international expertise. Which is...nothing.
10/14/2007 8:45:26 AM Recommend (3)

Garak wrote:
Bullying behavior by Turkey is nothing new, as is acquiescence by the West, the same West that keeps the turkish military alfoat with massive aid. Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 and seized the better northern half of the island. Just like it did to the Armenians, Greeks, and others during and after WW I, Turkey ethnically cleansed the part of Cyprus in invaded of Greek Cypriots. It then imported peasant Turks from Anatolia to populate northern Cyprus. And the Turks got away with it, just like they got away with the Armenian Holocaust. Now the same ruthless Turkish general have their eyes set on eliminating yet another ethnic minority, the Kurds. The Kurds themselves deserve little love, as they played a major part in the Armenian Holocaust as butchers for the Turks. But it's more important to teach the Turkish Reich a lesson, that the civilized world won't tolerate Nazi-like genocide and ethnic cleansing. So we should arm the Kurds, give them intelligence on Turkish forces, and let the Kurds teach the Turks a lesson in brute force. As for the bodies of the dead Turkish soldiers draped in Turkish flags that are on the front pages of the Turkish newspapers, well, that really didn't happen, just like the Armenian Holocaust didn't happen.
10/14/2007 8:35:58 AM Recommend (2)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
America thinks that she can buy allies and friends by giving them billions of $$. I wonder if these 'friends' take the trouble of saying thank you USA. I wouldn't, I would think: This guy is an idiot, at home families live on food coupons!!
10/14/2007 8:35:48 AM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Do we need America's permission to invade? BushCo is even invading the privacies of his OWN people!!
10/14/2007 8:22:21 AM Recommend (1)

cabby7311 wrote:
I do love my Country, but not the Politicians running it. We seem to be getting more like a bulley. Just about every country we used to be friendly with has turned away, We don't take care of our own needy, Just check your local Food Pantry, Just 1 more thing, Where does all this money come from that Congress and the President send overseas? Any CEO would be fired by now if they did this. Sorry to be so negative, but I am upset. God help us all!
10/14/2007 8:19:33 AM Recommend (2)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
America's security is not threatened, American freedoms are threaned by BushCo!
10/14/2007 8:17:30 AM Recommend (2)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Do you realize how many by-products there are after the oil is refined?? Hundreds and hundreds of by-products, from lipstick, plastics,medicines,etc. Lubricating oils, without lube oil nothing would move!! The Western World is desperate for OIL.
10/14/2007 8:10:28 AM

beth-wade wrote:
What a mess. Decades of enmity. The Kurds should have showed restraint here. This is anarchy...or soon will be.
10/14/2007 8:06:50 AM

tjp427 wrote:
Another stuck on stupid moment from Washington, which only goes to tell you the Bush administration is not the only incompetent in town. Congress can't decide which role to be - historians or public policy wonks.
10/14/2007 7:56:40 AM Recommend (1)

infamousangel55 wrote:
when the people od usa want the war to end and have a president that loves war and death proclaiming genocide by the turkish was a brilliant idea... bush vetoes any bill giving him less than he wants... but angering the turkish government puts a dent in his military prowess... without the aid of turkish airspace and bases... the war in iraq will come to a standstill... proof a lying cheating dog can be brought to their knees when one goes into his playing field... thank God the democrats bushwhacked mr. president and got response from turkey that will shut down bushs war machine...
10/14/2007 7:39:28 AM Recommend (1)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
A 1922 quote by R. Pettigrew. This great and wonderful force- the accumulated wealth of the USA- has taken over all the functions of Govt. the Congress, the issue of money and banking and the army and the navy in order to have mercenaries to do their bidding and protect their stolen property! Stated in 1922!! Does it sound familiar today??
10/14/2007 7:29:27 AM Recommend (2)

eingreifen wrote:
It is simply amazing, how totally incompetent the US Congress really is. In a time of major crisis they manage to throw gasoline on the fire. I would be more worried about the outsourcing of US Industrial base which robs us of the Social Security Wage Base. Why not outsource the US Congress?
10/14/2007 7:22:54 AM Recommend (5)

vercinget wrote:
An inmutable law. The dream of the Being. Fulfilling the whole universe by growing or cloning in order to avoid any outsider. An ousider able to steal it because resemblance is the essence of this universe. If not both ones could live strange to the other without any interaction. An outsider putting in risk his survival. But unicity is forbidden. Totally forbidden by the greatest law of this universe. Constant inevitable movement and transformation. The most hatred thing by the Being wanting to be forever.
10/14/2007 7:04:47 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Rice is another example of this BushCo govt. who's ignorant and arrogant. Turkey should try restraint she says!! At the same her Blackwater gang goes on slaughtering innocent women and children! Rice, shut up and do what you do best--nothing.
10/14/2007 7:01:24 AM Recommend (1)

vercinget wrote:
Yes. The nowdays USA is among those ones requiring total equity. If not you are an outsider. And they are unable to see that conflict begins when enough outsiders are existing. Yes. Equity doesn't exist. Resemblance do even when we cannot see it.
10/14/2007 6:54:51 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
essay, You claim that Turkey is a barbaric, islamic nation. Am I wrong to say that America is a barbaric,christian nation? Blackwater and all that?
10/14/2007 6:53:38 AM Recommend (6)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
America calls anybody an ally when it's in her own interests! If America doesn't need you, you can drop dead.
10/14/2007 6:47:04 AM Recommend (1)

hgcsato wrote:
Ohhhh, after decades of denials, the Turks want historians to judge genocide? And how is this related to the latest PKK vs. Turkish army deal? Every one that monitors Turkey closely knows that the Islamists made a deal with the Army---they can go into northern Iraq if Gul becomes president. This is just another piece of Turkish deals that are always done with bad faith and in a tricky carpet-bazaar kind of mentality! The Turks deserve it...all of it!
10/14/2007 6:45:13 AM

vercinget wrote:
The concept of ally is the key thing. Some request enough resemblance. Other ones require total equity. It is a matter of abality and will to see resemblance. Those unable to see nothing about are the danger itself.
10/14/2007 6:44:20 AM

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
Turkey wants to secure the oil fields of Northern Irak, like America is doing in other areas of Irak. But I bet that the Turks won't slaughter 1 million+ Iraki civilians to get the oil.
10/14/2007 6:41:51 AM Recommend (2)

cartman1 wrote:
We give the Kurds weapons to help us fight Al Queda in Iraq (The Surge). Everybody screams the Kurds will try to establish Kurdistan. The Kurds do exactly this, as everybody but the fool on the hill foresaw. Now for months Turkey has had troops at their border worried about the newly armed Kurds. Note this happened WAY before any resolution was passed in Washington. Now our best(only)friend in the area is being attacked by people we armed and they want to defend themselves. Meanwhile the spinmasters in Washington claim this all came about because of something passed in congress recently when it all goes back to our preemptive strike in Iraq. Hell it really goes back to our promising the Kurds if they attacked Saddam(remember him?) we would support them. We never did, and Saddam gassed the Kurds for trying to kill him. We used this as our excuse to start Iraq 2 ,our journey into hell. Now when we started losing the war we arm the Kurds and are amazed they might have an agenda of their own.Oh wait a minute we didn't arm the Kurds! All those weapons that General Petraius was responsible for got LOST and somehow the Kurds fond them. Yeah yeah I get it now, must drink the Kool-Aid, must drink the Kool-Aid. and down the rabbit hole we go, see you on the other side Alice! Cart
10/14/2007 6:39:06 AM Recommend (3)

jvandeswaluw1 wrote:
The Sykes-Picot Agreement of May, 1916 is debet to the Kurdish problem. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire the English and French interests in the Arab world were confirmed in this Agreement WITHOUT consulting the Arab nations. At that time they 'forgot' to give back their former country Kurdistan.
10/14/2007 6:33:39 AM Recommend (1)

idkak wrote:
blakesouthwood - Turkey doesn't have soldiers in Iraq at the moment because the US was strictly against it. It has been a large discussion point for why the hell does Turkey need NATO for,firstly at war NATO countries didn't help Turkey when it asked for anti-missile defense against Iraq (patriots etc..), which is sort of against NATO law, then Turkey is asked to take command and send soldiers in Afghanistan, Africa, Balkans, Lebanon..but cant put a single soldier in Iraq their back yard.. because of the US 'Kurd' dream. In all cases where Turkish soldiers serve these soldiers aren't shown as Turkish, they are labeled as other when it comes to news. The latest scandal in Afganistan was foreign soldiers putting Turkish flags on their uniform, their reason is that the afgans dont attack Turkish soldiers as they only build schools and provide medical services there, and command.
When Turkey said that it will dismantle the elite battalion that it has given EU they protested, why? because they need a EU force not NATO, but need to use NATO resources. So the hassle against Turkey. Now France wants to enter the military section of NATO and Turkey will most probably veto it.
10/14/2007 6:32:04 AM Recommend (1)

sambawi wrote:
I can not believe Bush and his thugs have the audacity to suggest that Turkey show restraints in handling the PKK threat on her borders. As if the Bushies had exhibited any constraints in killing Iraq and Iraqies. They have no right to suggest any thing when we have an administration that lied and cheated to attack Iraq, a fifth rate Banana dictatorship just to satsify the vengence and hullicination of its dry drunk Criminal in Chief, the killing frenzy of its extreme right wing evangelist so called Christian thugs and the greed of its oil bossom bodies billionaires. We need to take back control of our country from this gang of thugs that stole it on January 20, 2001 and the sooner we do this the sooner our children, grandchildren and the world can live in peace and mutual prosperity.
10/14/2007 6:29:26 AM Recommend (3)

vercinget wrote:
Which are the deep real reasons for the democracy spreading and the 'war on terror' promoted by the USA? To protect the USA fulfilling the world only with allies even by force. American are mainly interested on American like any human being.
10/14/2007 6:26:14 AM

vercinget wrote:
For the American learning curbe on Policy. Kurds are mainly interested on Kurds and Turkish on Turkish like any human being in this world.
10/14/2007 6:17:04 AM

blakesouthwood wrote:
It's interesting that Turkey is our ally and yet they don't have even 1 soldier in Iraq helping to fight the insurgents and Turkey is practically begging to join the European Union and they aren't even IN Europe. Turkey is an Islamic Democracy in name only. If Turkey were truely our ally then they'd help fight the insurgents with 1 million troops in Iraq. Instead Turkey is going to go in and flatten the Kurds with tanks. Reading the news now is so unreal. The whole world is unravelling. Turkey needs to grow up. But, at the same time our government and state departments clearly have an agenda and it's not winning hearts and minds its... dinosaur juice.
10/14/2007 6:11:18 AM Recommend (1)

cpwash wrote:
So, the war is starting to widen a little more. Both the Saudi and the Irani are sending in arms and material already. Your so called success in Kurdistan is an illusion, as they will be fulling engaged against the Turks soon, and down at Tecret as well after the referendum there. Har, har, what morons you are.
10/14/2007 6:09:31 AM

vercinget wrote:
Please, be patient. Broad points of view. The Kurds are the Jewel of the American Crown in Iraq. That is the reason for supporting them farer then Turkish interests. Second. A recognized Kurdistan State is a possible seed for promoting peshmerga and other fanatic groups to the fight.
10/14/2007 5:54:53 AM

RAS1142 wrote:
FOR GET ABOUT TURKEY, GO TO (GOOGLE DICK CHANEY TOPOFF 4) MAY BE OUR NEXT FALSE FLAG OP.
10/14/2007 5:48:16 AM

vercinget wrote:
Turkey has made a bet. A unified Iraq is impossible. Finally American will divide the country if they are not kicked out before by the Iraqi government. This will make a strong and recognized Kurd State. This is the definition of danger for the Turks.
10/14/2007 5:41:04 AM

idkak wrote:
    This is a laugh, what are you guys/gals on? :D Maybe you didn't know when Saddam decided to kill of the Kurds, Turkey opened its border and sheltered them (and this is their gratitude now, irony?). And of course provided passage for the CIA's Kurd squad, which later got named to peshmerge..and now I suppose they are the force behind the terrorist group PKK/PEJAK or variants. Currently Turks are constructing a lot of places in N.Irak, and selling cheap electricity and petrol to them, this includes basic foodstuffs.
    But there are idiots in the west who claim parts of Turkey,Syria,Iran in maps to belong to Kurds and play on differences between ethnicities in these countries, and give weapons to and support nationalistic ideologies of the Kurdish ethnicities for leverage in the area and think they can get away with it.. Then there is the Arab/Persian support for the PKK/PEJAK as Turkey isn't an Islamic country, and supports the US, Isreal and the west since 1923. Turkey is secular which means religion plays no role in politics or countries decisions, this is unlike many EU countries which are Christian and so they are reluctant to understand and with latest comments they are more of a joke than Bush.
    SO Turkey will enter Iraq or any country (Syria,Lebanon,Iran..) but it will be solely for the extermination of the PKK/Pejak group.
In any case Turks know how lost US weapons come to the hands of the PKK/Pejak Terrorist group.. they do have satellites, and US hummer's, Trucks in PKK bases to look conspicuous.. I'm interested at what the reaction to this would be in the US.
    But now the interesting part the peshmerge' groups which the CIA taught in various bases against Saddam are currently digging trenches and moving heavy equipment to the north, and say they will attack the Turkish army, this is suicide of course and they most probably will run once they sight the Turkish army, but this causes a big nerving problem for the US, as they supplied and taught these people techniques of warfare.. what to do? help the Kurdish so be army (peshmerge's I've talked about..) and stand enemy to the second largest military force in NATO, and the most powerful army in the region which would mean automatic support for the Turks from most radical islamic countries like Iran.. and possibly end US existence in the middle east and Asia, maybe even turn into WWIII.
    Another option is do nothing, and try politically to halt the Turks by economic threat. This wont stop the Turks at all, and the administration will face the music back home for doing nothing.. oh forgot maybe they will use Turkey as a scape goat.. sort of they did it. :)
    In any case the above will force the Turks to play the Caucasus, Russia, Asia, China,Korea cards. Origin of Turks is central Asia, so there are many relative countries in the region who are more sympathetic to Turks than to US or EU, and this could be bigger problem than Iraq will ever be.
10/14/2007 5:37:48 AM    Recommend (2)

MPatalinjug wrote:
Both the US and Iraq (long touted as an independent and sovereign state) will confront a big crisis if Turkey goes ahead anyway to invade northern Iraq in pursuit of those Kurdish rebels. Either Iraq or the US, or both, should do something to deny access to those Kurdish rebels and thus improve their chances of Turkey agreeing not to invade Iraq. US pleas for Turkey not to go ahead with its intention to cross the border into Iraq are not bound to work. Those Kurdish rebels have long been a thorn in the neck of Turkey and have felt free to create havoc inside Turkey because they know they have a safe haven inside Iraq. MarPatalinjug@aol.com
10/14/2007 5:31:13 AM Recommend (1)

vercinget wrote:
For the American learning curbe on Policy. You cannot figure out everybody is stupid but you.
10/14/2007 5:25:53 AM

vercinget wrote:
Of course Turkey is not stupid. The Jewel of the American Crown, the Kurdistan, is not domething they like much. Yes. Sunni lands are sterile. Shiite lands are really dangerous. The Kurds are the paradise of the oil.
10/14/2007 5:22:52 AM

MPatalinjug wrote:
Let us hope that cooler heads in Turkey chane their minds about their threat to get Turkish military forces to cross the border into the Kurdish portion of Iraq in pursuit of those Kurdish rebels. What amounts to an invasion of Iraq by Turkey can indeed have very serious consequences, both apparent now and not foreseeable.
The US Congress likewise should see the wisdom of reconsidering passage of that Resolution condemning Turkey for what the Resolution characterizes as the "massacre" of Armenians back some one hundred years ago. One really wonders what good would such condemnation of an event which occurred long ago can accomplish beyond angering the Turkish government and the Turkish people. MarPatalinjug@aol.com
10/14/2007 5:22:11 AM

vercinget wrote:
A total Middle East destabilization made by people who have a name. Neoconservative, pseudo-neoconservatives and their wizards. Sterile destroyers is also their name.
10/14/2007 5:17:45 AM

Open1 wrote:
    HOUSTON, Oct. 9 -- Heritage Oil Corp. said it has signed a production-sharing contract with the outlaw Kurdistan regional government (KRG) for an exploration license covering the Miran block in the southwest section of the Kurdistan region of Iraq, near Turkey. Heritage will begin geological work immediately and could start a high-impact exploration drilling program in 2008.
The 1,015 sq km license area contains the very large Miran structure, which as expressed at surface, comprises an area of about 500 sq km and may have three separate culminations. According to the law, this oil is not there for the exploitation of Houston Bushies. Congressman Dennis Kucinich (Dennis4president.com/home) said today’s United Press International report on Hunt Oil raises more questions worthy of Congressional investigations and that he will introduce legislation to ban U.S. oil companies from operating in Iraq.
    “I’m concerned that if we don’t reverse the “war for oil” policy, many negative consequences for the United States could follow. I think it would prevent any hope of an emerging peace process in the Middle East,” Kucinich said. Like Pastor Ted Haggard's prayer breakfast Mcsausage with Bush in the White House or Karl Rove's intern filth on Bush's own children, “The war in Iraq is a stain on American history. Let us not further besmirch our nation by participating in an outrageous exploitation of a nation, which is in shambles due to the U.S. intervention,” Kucinich (Dennis4president.com) said in an insightful speech on the floor of the House of Representatives on May 23, 2007.
    Recent drilling indicates that the block's reservoir potential, which exists at numerous zones, could exceed 1 billion bbl of oil, Heritage said. None of that oil is America's and no American company has the right to drill it. Under terms of the PSC, Heritage Energy Middle East Bushie Ministries Ltd. will serve as operator of the license, which has a primary term of 5 years and an option to extend for 2 additional years. Heritage will invest just under $40 million over the primary term. The Miran license automatically will be converted into a looting license upon a commercial discovery. Our vision for the world is a Blackwater world, said a Texas oil hustler. Heritage also has entered into an illegal strategic agreement with the outlaw KRG to form a 50:50 joint venture company to build, own, and operate a 20,000 b/d refinery with no pollution control near the license area. The refinery is scheduled to start blowing smoke in about 2 years.
    The Iraqi Department of Homeland Security is targeting the top US executives involved in their sights.
10/14/2007 5:07:38 AM    Recommend (1)

blakesouthwood wrote:
Turkey is about to show their true colors.
10/14/2007 4:33:26 AM

book134 wrote:
For 3 years, Turkey has been complaining to the US about Iraqi Kurdish incursions into Turkey with Kurdish intent to stir up trouble there. It isn't as if this is a recent development. As the occupying power in Iraq, the US should have taken steps to stop this problem long ago. If the US will not take action against the Kurds, Turkey has every right to defend it's territory & people from malicious incursion.
10/14/2007 4:04:23 AM Recommend (1)

MagicPanther wrote:
So once again I say that if we stay in Iraq, kurds, possibly basra but doubt it, as the brits move out guess who is going to move in, and i am talking about keeping a base of operation screw oil, though it's nice to have.
10/14/2007 3:58:41 AM

MagicPanther wrote:
    rat-the wrote: PANTHER, I am AFRAID you, and too many others miss my point, and also missed an analogy I used the other day. Sigh, the infrastructure for pumping the oil out is already their, no flying needed, Afghanistan is also landlocked but we're there. And unfortunately you are wrong this IS a religious thing and NOT an oil thing. I have no idea how many times i have asked folks to do web search of grand mufti Jerusalem, or search on Islamic SS units or even skorzeny. Here do some reading
http://ftrsummary.blogspot.com/2006/09/ftr-565-middle-east-matrix.html
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2543
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php/www.irf.net/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1474
http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/muslim_brotherhood.html
Strange Allies - Bosnian Muslim division of the Waffen-SS
    There have been four phases of cooperation between militant Islam and the extreme right, stretching back to Germany's Third Reich and World War II. As WWII progressed, al-Husseini helped organize a Bosnian Muslim division of the Waffen SS. After Hitler's defeat, as Nazi Germany crumbled, Hitler's erstwhile officers had to flee. It was natural that many of Hitler's men went to the Middle East. After Gamal Abdel Nasser became Egypt's president, a number of Nazis were given prominent positions. Nazi commando Otto Skorzeny trained thousands of Egyptians in guerilla and desert warfare.
    Haj Amin el Husseini arrived in Europe in 1941 following the unsuccessful pro-Nazi coup which he organized in Iraq. He met German foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop and was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28,1941 in Berlin. Nazi Germany established for der Grossmufti von Jerusalem a Bureau from which he organized the following: 1) radio propaganda on behalf of Nazi Germany; 2) espionage and fifth column activities in Muslim regions of Europe and the Middle East; 3) the formation of Muslim Waffen SS and Wehrmacht units in Bosnia-Hercegovina, Kosovo-Metohija, Western Macedonia, North Africa, and Nazi-occupied areas of the Soviet Union; and, 4) the formation of schools and training centers for Muslim imams and mullahs who would accompany the Muslim SS and Wehrmacht units. As soon as he arrived in Europe, the Mufti established close contacts with Bosnian Muslim and Albanian Muslim leaders. He would spend the remainder of the war organizing and rallying Muslims in support of Nazi Germany.
http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/022.shtml
http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/066.shtml
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/bakera.htm
    The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz. http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2006/08/hitler_and_the_1.php
    Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem arrived in Iraq in 1939 and was amoung the leader of the pro Nazi revolt in May 1941. Following the suppression of the insurrection, he fled to Germany and joined the Nazi war effort against the Allies.
He conducted a vicious propaganda campaign against the Allies and especially against the Jews on Arabic broadcast over German radio ,calling upon Arabic and Muslims to slaughter the Jews wherever they might be. photograph signed "In remembering with the large H.Himmler Muftir "
    This May 15 1943 letter from Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to the German Foreign Minister Ribbentrop requested German intervention in the Balkans especially in Bulgaria to prevent an agreement with Britain and the United States to allow Jews to leave for Eretz Israel. The Mufti noted that the Arabs supported the Axes Power in the hope that they would provide a final solution to the problem of the Jews- the commun enemy of the people of Europe and of the Arab nation. Muhammed Amin al-Husseini [many spelling variations] was born in 1893 (or 1895), the son of the Mufti of Jerusalem and member of an esteemed, aristocratic family. The Husseinis were one of the richest and most powerful of all the rivalling clans in the Ottoman province known as the Judaean part of Palestine. Amin al-Husseini studied religious law at al-Azhar University, Cairo, and attended the Istanbul School of Administration. In 1913 he went to Mecca on a pilgrimage, earning the honorary title of "Haj". He voluntarily joined the Ottoman Turkish army in World War I but returned to Jerusalem in 1917 and expediently switched sides to aid the victorious British. He acquired the reputation as a violent, fanatical anti-Zionist zealot and was jailed by the British for instigating a 1920 Arab attack against Jews who were praying at the Western Wall.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
10/14/2007 3:53:28 AM

essay wrote:
Japan is a Western nation. Turkey is not a Western nation. In 2007 July, the House of Representatives justifiably passed a resolution demanding that Tokyo apologize for the brutalization of "comfort women" during World War II. Though a minority of Japanese politicians dissented with the resolution, the Japanese government (as a whole) accepted the American criticism. By contrast, in 2007 October, as the House of Representatives nears passage of a resolution declaring the slaughter of Armenians by Turkish thugs to be genocide, the Turkish government has recalled its ambassador from the USA. Turkish politicians vociferously condemn the Americans. The Turkish government, with the overwhelming support of the Turkish people, continue to censor comments declaring the slaughter to be genocide. Turkey is not a Western nation. Turkey is a barbaric Islamic nation. The European Union should probibit Turkey from joining the European Union. reporter, USA, http://theclearsky.blogspot.com/
10/14/2007 3:32:35 AM Recommend (2)

blasmaic wrote:
American troops radicalize moderates. It happened in Saudi Arabia, leading to 9/11. It happening in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey too. If we weren't ready to war and occupy the entire region, then we should have limited our actions to diplomacy and air strikes. Too late for that now. We must eventually rule everything from Morocco to Georgia to Kabul in order to keep gasoline below $10 a gallon. And then we'll go after those who favor Euros over Dollars.
10/14/2007 3:01:53 AM Recommend (1)

rat-the wrote:
PANTHER, I am AFRAID you, and too many others miss my point, and also missed an analogy I used the other day. The Kurdish resistance is OUT OF LINE! THEY seem to think this is 1800 or something! Granted, when you are digging holes for latrines, and sleeping in tents, it might get a little confusing! However, the boundaries drawn, are drawn! Religion does NOT get to play a Part! NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BRAIN DEAD CLERIC TELLS YOU! Please, SHOOT HIM FIRST! There, rational thought! The entire notion of Kurdistan is RELIGIOUS! The reality is POLITICAL! As I tried to point out, if all the Catholics(Of which I am) decided that FORMER Catholic Countries should be the Boundaries of CatholicVille, WE WOULD BE ANETHEMA TOO! Adapt, and learn to get along Kurds. Or say goodbye to this World! Stupidity is proven by Darwin to be a very weak Survival Trait! Not a Threat, just GOOD FRIENDLY FREE ADVICE! Idiots-Even if you did establish your friggin Country, YOUR LANDLOCKED!-Good luck FLYING your Oil out! Maybe Darwin was right?!
10/14/2007 2:43:09 AM Recommend (1)

rkerg wrote:
See, that part of the world is a tinderbox and, that is why events there often have unintended consequences. Even the Israelis, who probably have the best intelligence operation and definitely the best equipped army in the region has learned the hard way that long term occupations in that neighborhood are like dying the death of a thousand cuts.
10/14/2007 1:44:25 AM Recommend (1)

iamanurse wrote:
Why did congress stir up this beehive? Don't we the people have enough unrest in this world? Just who's idea was this one? Pelosi? The new sheriff in town. Well Nancy I think you are way off track! This idea of taking care of jaywalkers while your citizens are being killed is a little foolish. God forbid things might be going a little better in the cesspool called Iraq. But then it is just another busy day in the cesspool we call congress!! Just between us Nancy you don't have to waste americas time trying to prove Bush flubbed up we all ready knew it but honey you are at the top of the list too! What a wonderful way to show you support the troops get s few more killed!
10/14/2007 1:41:52 AM Recommend (1)

MorganaLeFay wrote:
The Bush regime could piss off and alienate a rock. Turkey will gobble up the Kurds by Thanksgiving and Bush will have a second front in his war. To make matters worse, the Iraqis will be in control of Basra so our troops will may have no convenient routes for supply and evacuation.
10/14/2007 1:25:18 AM Recommend (1)